The cost of Wind Power seems to be trending downward while the cost of fossil fuels is trending upward.

http://www.ieawind.org/index_page_postings/WP2_task26.pdf

And while foreign producers of fossil fuel can decide to refine fewer quantities in order to drive up prices, this possibility is not available to Wind and/or solar as a source of energy.

GHC, you are fighting progress

Unfortunately, Maryland has already passed laws mandating a certain percentage of "green electricity" must be sold by the electric providers. So the wind power will be sold. It will be sold to fewer manufacturers and high energy users because they will choose not to locate in Maryland or will move elsewhere, leaving residents to subsidize this fiasco. Cost of living goes up, jobs go down. But, won't we feel good about ourselves? Not.

Karl, does mandated on a producer level mean that customers have no choice in whether they purchase it or not. I believe customers still have that choice.

There is no such thing as " clean coal" No commercial power generator in the world can be called a " clean coal" power plant. Demand side management, time of use rates, distributed generation, combined cycle and gas turbines new installations, along with high voltage DC overlay to existing transmission assets are available, real and commercially viable solutions for solving today's electric supply problems, not some pie in the sky, unreliable and uneconomical and imaginary beast called clean coal.

Welcome to the Patch Gramps, we look forward to your next post.

I'm not sure where Gramps is coming from, but there is continuous research being conducted in connection with the efficient use of coal. As for the statement that, "There is no such thing as 'clean coal,'" perhaps Gramps would find the research at Ohio State interesting: http://www.osu.edu/features/2013/ohio-state-develops-clean-coal-technology.html.

Does anyone know whether the impact of these wind farms on migratory birds has been assessed? I ask because a number of articles have appeared over the years discussing to potentially significant impact of increased wind farm development on migratory birds. http://bioenergyuiuc.blogspot.com/2007/10/u.html, http://www.nature.com/news/the-trouble-with-turbines-an-ill-wind-1.10849.

Gramps, Brandon Shores is an example of a local premier clean coal plant With the new scrubber technology the coal burning produces 90% less nitrogen oxide, 95% less sulfur and vastly lower other pollutants.

Cleaner =/= clean, fyi.

Maybe we should start a new meme: "coal is not clean enough"...

"Continuous research" = doesn't exist in a commercially viable form.

the oil market is an international market. Any company who produces oil here, American or not, will sell the oil at the highest price they can get. Consequently, more drilling here will have no impact on international commodity price unless we can produce enough to flood the market. This is unlikely to happen. And in the mean time we would not be finding a solution to air polluting emissions. We cannot continue to increase the number of machines spewing toxins into the aie before the ill effects of doing so will become irreversible. We must move in the other direction. increasing our use of Solar & Wind power and reducing burning fuels will move us in the right direction.

And we can't produce enough to flood the market because the US just doesn't have the reserves that the top producers control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

Your comments about the millionaire tax and its effects are an "urban legend". Simply not true. Across the country states like NJ, NY and California have done a similar increase and increased revenues substantially.

Apparently everything that contradicts the liberal propaganda machine is now an "urban legend." Millionaire tax revenues down in Maryland "urban legend" ... Adding $1.50 to everyone's monthly electric bill will cost everyone more money and will be hardest on the poor and middle class "urban legend" ... Windmills 30 miles out in the Atlantic will cost more to maintain than windmills on land "urban legend" ... Record increases in women purchasing hand guns and rifles categorized as assault rifles "urban legend" ... A few dozen F-16 jets are more dangerous in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood than a Browning hunting rifle is in the hands of a retired US Marine ... "urban legend" ... Increasing the gasoline tax and or adding sales tax to gasoline is a tax on the poor and middle class "urban legend" ... Left is not right "urban legend" ... It's like playing Who's on First with Dr. Seuss

It depends on where the wind mills are as to whether they produce cost efficient energy or not. The measured efficiency varies from place to place. !0 miles off shore is a considerably different place than any land based location in Pennsylvania, Western Maryland or Virginia. A large company like Google would not be interested in investing in a string of East Coast, off shore wind farms if they did not believe in the long term viability of such a project.

I have family that invested in 2 farm operation windmills several years ago...they have been very disappointed with the operation..They recently invested in 2 solar arrays and have been very satisfied to date with the results.. this is not the the government grand scale type of operation, but I have witnessed a fair comparison on a smaller, simpler level..

PA & VA are not the only places rusted wind mills stand as ugly stems. I've seen these useless hulks in Hawaii, Oregon and Washington. I've read about them in Texas and Florida. Undoubtedly they are rusting elsewhere. The companies owning them couldn't afford the maintenance and went bankrupt. Another company bought a rusted wind farm, repaired some of the turbines by canibalizing others. It went bankrupt too. The state took possession of the property for back taxes. But they didn't take the rust hulks down.
Wind is not dependable. it's not always there or it's there when it's not needed. Interestingly, the wind turbines are seldom used in Washington because of all the hydro electric power available. The only way to store wind power is by pumping water up a mountain to a reservoir and when needed, release the water through a hydro electric dam. They haven't done that. Too expensive.

Source?

How come all of the sudden migratory birds are not in danger?

Agreed

And birds don't get chopped up....

Fowl looking bird choppers..

None of your sources are credible, let alone anywhere close to objective, Cory. The first three are minimally informed greenies with the flat-earth, no-growth environmental Marxist spin. The fourth, NPR, is a government (federal tax) subsidized Statist propaganda machine for Barry and Marty Owe and their minions. Green is a convenient platform for the new Reds.

I believe the legislation stipulates 10 to 30 miles offshore

Have you heard a wind turbine? Have you felt vibrations? Really? I would imagine designers/engineers would make the turbine go very smoothly as vibration would destroy it/energy would be wasted, and sound from what? No noise. Vibration? I don't believe so.
Separate note: I don't understand why people are not getting the basis for decreasing use of fossil fuels: CARBON and Greenhouse gases = earth warming and a cascade of events that will become irreversible if they are not all ready. There is no "clean coal". It still is dirty and produces CO2 still. We have to use less energy and not destroy our environment, or do things that lead to destruction (i.e. Unsustainability). Yes, this is going to cost us now. Is future of our children worth it?

Carbon affects nothing. Everything on earth has carbon in it.

Watching too much "Day After Tomorrow"?

They don't produce vibrations. They make the foundations really beefy to preclude it

the Fracking conversation is over here: http://perryhall.patch.com/blog_posts/is-our-drinking-water-in-danger

So i can't bring it up here as an alternative to wind power which is inefficient?

You can bring it up, but there's no way you can call it clean. And frankly it's not an comparable alternative to a wind farm anyway.

Burning fossil fuels != zero emission wind energy

I didn't call it clean. It's the cheapest. Wind is expensive and makes no economic sense.

Cheapest will cost more over the long haul because of the damage associated with perceived cheap natural gas fracking...dumb to even consider at this point..

PerryHallParent ... Gee I guess you have a point ... Because we all know the only place to find information about something certain to be more truthful than the internet is HBO.

Gasland is a Hollywood scripted movie not a factually supported scientifically based documentary. Yet, you take the liberal elitist approach to making your point by asserting that anyone not believing the progressive liberal point of view must be poorly educated. Can you please show the rest of us your PHD in geology or environmental engineering?

Nothing dangerous about it. All chemicals are contained. The drills are so deep they do not come close to drinking water. Learn a little.

CP, there are many other people saying there IS something wrong with fracking. Many folks disagree with the idea that all these chemicals are contained.

CP..Short blurb bait statements with no merit..Fracking has been proven to be dangerous a several levels... you can believe what you want..

I like it ! Natural and green energy...what would we do with all the overages though...there are so many jailed human beings in MD alone that we would probably need several hundred gerbil wheels...and they could run 24/7...

ha ha yes forced human slavery is great guys

You are forced to work on average 20 years of your life directly for the government and most don't even realize it...that's real forced slavery..!

huh wha?

Think about it Corbin...you must give the government on average a third of your earnings throughout your working life...in most cases today people work 60 years...20 of those years are taken from you without your permission...think...

Buck - Liberals don't work so your math doesn't apply to them.

I foolishly believed people were interested in a serious discussion, but really, they only want to snipe at each other. The research makes two key points:

"...[W]ind power has a disproportionate effect on certain species that are already struggling for survival, such as the precarious US population of golden eagles... ."

"If renewable energy is mandated to increase to 20 percent to help curb global warming, the number of bird deaths associated with wind power could increase 20 fold, to roughly 900,000 to 1.8 million deaths a year. "

If coal is not clean enough, despite "capturing 99 percent of the carbon dioxide produced in the reaction," in light of the forgoing, perhaps wind isn't green enough.

LOL What kinds of birds do you find 30 miles offshore?

There are numerous migratory and sea birds. Besides sea mammals are directly affected by the sound and maintenance traffic from boats and machinery.

The funniest thing I read all day, all of a sudden CP is an environmentalist. Hah!. What do you think of global warming CP? Want your cake and eat it too?

FIFA i did a little reading. Even Wind companies say there is a danger.

1ke: It's important to understand the difference between what a law says, and what the impacts will be. You've got to be a little more sophisticated than simply repeating what the corporate rent-seekers and their political patrons are trying to feed you.

Yes, the law would limit the directly caused rate increases to $1.50 per month -- for residences. But the chances are nil that those costs would be the only ones Marylanders will have to pay.
- Businesses will have to lay out more -- which means higher prices to consumers
- The remaining increased costs will be paid by state taxpayers.

All for the sake of subsidizing a politically favored company. How can anybody with half a brain accept the pocket-picking by O'Malley?

How could RFK Jr be so wrong? You guys are hypocrites.

CP, your comments are hard to follow. They do not seem to relate to the current conversation, and they typically include name calling. What is the comment above in raltion too. It apears to be an attempt to derail the conversation.

RFK JR fought tooth and nail in Mass. to stop offshore wind farms. Claiming environmental hazards. Now it's ok?

AP IMPACT: Wind farms get pass on eagle deaths. Way to go! http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WIND_ENERGY_EAGLE_DEATHS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-05-14-07-57-59